Will Starship Make The Artemis Program Better Than Apollo?
NASA's making some big moves to finally get humans back to the moon for the first time in over 50 years. The Artemis program is shaping up with checks written and hardware built! So how does a 21st Century program to the moon compare to that of the 1960's?

In Today's video, we’re going to answer the question, why does NASA think Artemis will be a sustainable program when SLS is sooooo dang expensive AND it’ll take at least two launches to get humans and their lunar landers to the moon.

This CAN’T be more sustainable than Apollo, right? Well, we didn’t even begin to scratch the surface of the costs, so today we’re going to really dive into the total costs, including development, infrastructure and hardware by giving SLS and Orion a full cost audit.

But we’ll even show you how the Apollo program and Artemis mission profiles differ including the specific orbits and rendezvous and everything required to get humans to the surface of the moon and even talk about the upgraded safety considerations and hardware involved.

Once we look at all these details, we can answer the question, 50 years later, is the Artemis program actually an improvement over the Apollo program or is NASA going completely in the wrong direction when returning to the moon?

00:00 - Intro
03:50 - The Hardware
15:55 - The Missions
29:15 - Safety & Upgrades
35:50 - Program Costs
46:20 - Rant
52:25 - The Good Parts of Artemis
55:35 - Conclusion


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  • よだ

    If they could do it in the 60s they can do it in 2024 no excuses

    • よだ

      @Farel Its been 60 Years there is no excuse all you did was say "you're wrong" and cite budget cuts they should have the technological know how to do it by 2024 they have been talking about this for 5+ years meanwhile China and Russia will be mining for minerals on the moon by 2024 and will hit their deadline. NASA also has the most astronauts and is heavily involved with Japan in Space exploration if China can start extracting resources and they have never been to the moon yet America who went there 60 years ago can't reach a deadline they have talked about for years its pathetic

    • Farel

      Actually you're wrong. The reason they've gone to the moon back then is because of space race. Space exploration is blowing up back then. Now they're not that important anymore, their budget is reduced to 0.46%, less money = less progress

  • Shoult55

    SLS will never be ready as that would end the contracts. That would be a bad business model.

  • Michael Calip
    Michael Calip

    Just use the Saturn V again lol

  • Cpt.AirWolf

    After listening to all the cost analysis I am convince that if you want to hide millions in overcharges... Space exploration is the perfect field to do it.

  • Hannah Logarski
    Hannah Logarski

    The heavenly heavy hellish lipstick rapidly bomb because windscreen regionally challenge afore a successful swing. lumpy, fascinated kitchen

  • Phoenix Hokage
    Phoenix Hokage

    Give me Kerbals and I'll give you the stars. It's all about funding and culture.

  • James Hoffman
    James Hoffman

    SLS: Sleeze Laundering System

  • S o u p
    S o u p

    hehehe humans live on night rock

  • 11B22abhijith.R Abhi
    11B22abhijith.R Abhi

    6 ish raptor engine

  • Raymond Monk
    Raymond Monk

    The problem is letting our corrupt government manage any of it… make it fully private and pay for delivery on those systems….

  • bittasweet symphony
    bittasweet symphony

    there is no fking way we ever landed on the moon in 1969, or ever, there would be plenty of failed attempts, crashed rockets over the moon, you're thinking they actually sent humans to the moon, landed successfully on it, opened the door like wallace and gromit, got out, walked around, then actually got back inside, close the door, and take off again!? and successfully lland on a speck of rock in space called earth? no way!! you all lack critical thought.

  • Painted Pony
    Painted Pony

    NASA had good objectives. The real problems are Lockheed and Boeing. They are becoming dinosaurs, extremely expensive and inept dinosaurs. I believe NASA is once again on the right track with new leadership and SpaceX.

  • John Holleran
    John Holleran

    Tim: virtually impossible to have cost overruns Boeing: Try me

  • Stephen 'kevin' Doss
    Stephen 'kevin' Doss

    Funny, no delay on phone service to the moon, even that was wayyy better in the 60’s.

  • Thunderstorm454

    Good thing is I‘m from Europe so I don’t pay taxes but still can enjoy the NASA

  • Daniel Geldof
    Daniel Geldof

    ... S-L-LESS

  • MyCaptainPugwash

    This is what happens when you rely on the industrial military complex

  • Digitalstorm007

    Claims everything was way more expensive back then... Not true.

  • Digitalstorm007

    "Impossible to have cost overruns" hold my milkshake.

  • Digitalstorm007

    Here's good news (proceeds to explain how insanely overpriced it is)

  • Harrison Spain
    Harrison Spain

    It's like General Motors was put in charge of the Artemis program.

  • IrelandBestLand

    Ksp sandbox players: what do mean nasa wants it to be cheap?

  • Stephen Mosca
    Stephen Mosca

    Since Apollo, government has designed by committee, to please many, with no clearly defined mission, at low budgets, using insider legacy “fabricators” that seem to like the status quo. With the exception of the (unmanned) planetary missions, though they’re launched on legacy gov’t launchers. Time, wealth inflation, and a visionary among the fools and scoundrels, have permitted an individual to just move ahead of them all, demonstrated amply by now commonplace reusable boosters. Unimpeded sound vision and an ability to excite the passion of the workforce can produce amazing results. That the government is allowing it all, participating at all, is a happy miracle, imho. If gov wants become a consistent, reliable partner in adventure ever again, well great. If not, the potential space offers to individuals is stunning, few though they are. But the wall of impossibility around affordable access is gone, baby. Gone.

  • Christopher Forsyth
    Christopher Forsyth

    I wonder what the cost would be if you SUBTRACTED all the Grafts and Kick backs ( aka- BRIBERY AND REDIRECTED FUNDING ? ) .

  • Marcus Langeström
    Marcus Langeström

    I just watched your video on why SSTO sucks. And I can't stop thinking on what would have happened if VentureStar would have been completed 😐

  • Joey Salazar
    Joey Salazar

    C'mon dude. I need to go to bed. Lol!

  • kane rockhound
    kane rockhound

    What a difference a year makes lol.

  • Michael Heider
    Michael Heider

    To do what ? Let's put up a base or don't go. No need for a photo op

  • Adrian Gabriel Gramada
    Adrian Gabriel Gramada

    C-Si WORD... Best on Earth and Space bar none. 😉😁®️

  • iamsheel

    if the US didn't waste their money on unnecessary wars to "protect their freedom" for the past 50 years, they could've had the space for themselves and left the earth in peace

  • Miika Pekk
    Miika Pekk

    Wow this is the best video do far! Really enjoyed watching it , thank you for the effort!

  • Hal Nordmann
    Hal Nordmann

    For those who say that SLSis somehow "stupid" and should be cancelled: The REAL purpose for SLS is to get NASA a heavy lift rocket they've been wanting for ages, with the lowest amount of engineering required - as it was thought "for cheap". Although it turned out to be expensive, most of these costs have been recurrent ones - engineer salaries, factory maintenance, etc. If most of your yearly budget for a project are costs you have to pay every year, it baloons up. Just a simple example: You need to produce something for 60 dollars and you need to spend 80$ per X time for food, rent, etc. If your boss gives you 100$ per X, you will spend a total of 300$ before the project is complete, but if he gives you 140$ per X then you only spend the 140$. Although it may seem counter-intuitive, sometimes the cheapest way to get something done is to give the one doing it more money.

  • Kerta Drake
    Kerta Drake

    For Starship, they really should put a detachable capsule at the top of it for the lunar landing models. Every time they go, they leave what is essentially useful future habitation behind. "Virtually impossible to have cost overruns" - You REALLY underestimate modern space programs and their ability to find creative ways to spend ridiculous amounts of money unnecessarily...

  • Danny Adrian
    Danny Adrian

    the difference is war

  • Ben Varela
    Ben Varela

    Well done, buddy.

  • Charlie Veltri
    Charlie Veltri

    Cheap er hahaha, space is expensive! Thank God they put competition in with it. Hopefully it'll bring down the cost of all flight.

  • Below asmelash habel shutel Gebremaraim
    Below asmelash habel shutel Gebremaraim

    Shubburu asme

  • Below asmelash habel shutel Gebremaraim
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    Asmelash wedishire

  • Totoo

    Too long

  • Below asmelash habel shutel Gebremaraim
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    Gobez weditigray Asmelash

  • Below asmelash habel shutel Gebremaraim
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    Jegna asmelash

  • Below asmelash habel shutel Gebremaraim
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  • Below asmelash habel shutel Gebremaraim
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  • Below asmelash habel shutel Gebremaraim
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    Anne asmelash Gebremariam Eye Tigraway

  • Below asmelash habel shutel Gebremaraim
    Below asmelash habel shutel Gebremaraim


  • Ethan Sommer
    Ethan Sommer

    Government sucks at this. NASA needs to go back to building telescopes

  • shoe 22
    shoe 22

    the money is going into a lot of peoples pockets. the launch tower that we had was cut up for scrap !!! what was wrong with this piece of equipment ?

    • Tyler3978

      Mostly it was built for the shuttles, and generally couldn't work with other rockets

  • Thomas Boomer
    Thomas Boomer

    Great job of presenting the various approaches, and the pros and cons of each.

  • tbk132

    I'm lowkey a saturn 5 fanboy so i'd rather see them rebuild a better saturn 5 but that might be just me xD

  • Bucket Mann
    Bucket Mann

    too bad national team, jeff is going crazy

  • Henk van Peer
    Henk van Peer

    Lot of the budget goes to subsidising Boeing and other “commercial” compagnies. USA is proud of being kapitalistic, freemarket rconomy etc., while, in fact it is a socialicistic society. Only, compagnies are not subsidiseddirectly, but via programs by NASA and the military. That is why icall it a war economy; much gouvernm nt, but only when he taxdollars go to dfending the interests of the top 0,1%; to compagnies making weapons or other high te h that can be used to defend the richest people in usa, CEO’s in for a large part publicl funded compgnies like Boeing, but there are a lot more businesses, hve salaries into the millions… and do NOT pay tax. Same is true for big pharma… n EU, state support is tightly regulated where in the usa, comlagnies getting those biljons worth or aupport, are the ines that help politicians. As such, there is a collaboration between big capital and politicians, collaborating to steal as much as possible from the normal tax payers…. USA will goto the moon, but not without a lot of already wealthy people becoming much wealthier in the proces…

  • Cory Coral
    Cory Coral

    Going to watch another program get canceled and see another decade slip through Iyar fingers.. honestly hurt me emotionally lmao

  • Kenny Fordham
    Kenny Fordham

    Launch day. Starship explodes on launch pad. Bocca Chika is wiped out. Elon lifts himself, out of the rubble. He brushes the dust off of his shoulders. He holds up his right hand; his thumb and forefinger are slightly apart. "Missed it, by that much!"

  • Stadtpark90

    He should have charged 100k$ for making that video.

  • DrFett

    Me, playing KSP while watchin this video: Yea this big nerd time

  • Hurlant

    SLS is a joke/scam to US tax oayers

  • Dallin Sumpter
    Dallin Sumpter

    Why is the Lunar starship rendered with sea-level raptors at all? As I understand it, it won't ever return to earth. They seem to be extra weight. Along that line of thought, why is it rendered with three mvacs? Lunar gravity is 1/6th of Earth's. It seems to me that 1/3 the thrust would be double what they need for lunar missions. Am I wrong?

  • cool water
    cool water

    As long as it doesn't cost the tax payer, I'm all for it.

  • Rick Reid
    Rick Reid

    It will never happen- why? Because it never happened in the first place. Mark my words- by the time of all our deaths reading this now, man will never have 'returned' to the Moon....

    • Farel

      @Rick Reid so tell me why USSR claimed them that the US landed on the moon?

    • Rick Reid
      Rick Reid

      @Tyler3978 do you need men to drop reflectors on the moon?

    • Tyler3978

      @Rick Reid And here you are with no evidence it didn't happen. How do you explain the retroreflectors left on the Moon?

    • Rick Reid
      Rick Reid

      @Tejas Singh Not at all- you have little evidence that the moon landings took place- you only have insults to cover your embarrassment

    • 1nSane5k

      @Tejas Singh True

  • Kalon Hage
    Kalon Hage

    A note pad? Who takes notes on UZmilk vids?

  • Nono Nono
    Nono Nono

    Without strong commercial incentives, I fear this will end up going nowhere. I think Musk knows as much, and is doing everything he can to make sure SpaceX won't rely on government funding. After Starlink, the next step might be fast cargo delivery from Earth to Earth, then on to space mining.

  • Lost Pony
    Lost Pony

    We shoulda fixed the shuttle in the 80s and built a moonbase by 95. Pure bs. Also, Apollo sucked. All that rocket discarded to deliver a book or less. Lame. Not proud.

  • Lost Pony
    Lost Pony

    Starship can be configured to do every job and bring 100x more stuff than any alternative.

  • john hopkins
    john hopkins

    missed something: How does crew of SpaceX HLS get off the lunar surface, for return to earth?

  • Eric Pilon
    Eric Pilon

    Thank you for getting all this info out there to us. It's amazing how much humankind is out of touch with space news. I'm really excited. If only one of my kids get interested in space news it would make me proud.

  • shawn douglass
    shawn douglass

    Very informative, thank you Tim p.s. I see that telecaster is still leaning against the wall,if you can't afford a a stand, I can end you would like

  • Michael Hill
    Michael Hill

    0:51 Yeah but you forgot one thing...People have gotten dumber. Just look at old news footage if you want proof of that. Journalists used to ask thoughtful questions and people used to give intelligent responses. Just this last week the President of the United States was asked what he thought about people falling to their deaths desperately clinging to the outside of an airplane as it was taking off because of a fiasco he created and he basically said, "Come on man...That was 4 or 5 days ago.". Lol. Yeah...We're not going back to the moon by 2024 or doing it in a cost effective manner, especially if Elon "The Snake-Oil Salesman" Musk is involved. That's for damned sure.

  • Bernhard K
    Bernhard K

    From me too: "This monster of a video is excellent - great work Tim! Loved the rant :)" Yes -"My blood is boiling" - Too. Kudos, thumbs up! " :) And thanks also for the the chapter "The Good Parts of Artemis" which sets a good mood again, and especially: the Conclusion is a great, great in rounding it off. "A bad sequel to a bad movie", that sums it off. As you said - glad to have SpaceX with Falcon9 and Dragon now.

  • Shanae

    We could have been to Mars by the nineties, we have the technology. If it was just up to NASA we would never make it to Mars.

  • Thomas Dillon
    Thomas Dillon

    Similar propellant tank to the space shuttle and similar solid rocket boosters. What could possibly go wrong.... .

  • Lonnso World
    Lonnso World

    For the first time in my life, I’m starting not to believe that we ever went there , so from the 60s it’s taking all this time to go back lol

  • José Barajas
    José Barajas


  • MY 2RUE-SENSE (Vlad Tepes)
    MY 2RUE-SENSE (Vlad Tepes)

    What I wanna know is, how in the world are you able to make this Comparison!? Considering, "I’d go to the moon in a nanosecond. The problem is we don’t have the technology to do that anymore. We used to but we destroyed that technology and its a painful process to rebuild it again.” ~Donald Pettit, Former NASA Astronaut

    • Tyler3978

      We know the specifics for the Saturn V, and know the planned specifics for the SLS

  • piet skiet
    piet skiet

    Boing must pay back some money and law suits..... Asking for a friend!?

  • Joey BoX0RoX
    Joey BoX0RoX

    Boeing is not SpaceX, Boeing is "The Stick-up Man" and we are the victims.

  • Charlie Fortin
    Charlie Fortin

    Very nice video. But hasn't Artemus been bypassed by a Space X lander as of this date 8-15-21?

  • ricvis44

    “Slide-rules” where NOT used for accurate measurement! Love your vids though!!!

  • 1111xyz

    Sustainable price? Based on what's been blown so far!

  • Dipling. Pitzler
    Dipling. Pitzler

    Ts ts....and Boeing is still suing and complaining about unfair competition and old Government loans to Airbus..all the ridiculously overpriced space contracts to Boeing are obviously under the counter loans with the small difference that these will never be paid back !

  • Maaz Siddiqui
    Maaz Siddiqui

    90% of the cost ends up in the pockets of CEOs and board members.

  • luis bito
    luis bito

    60 year stop 🛑 nasa ho has new chip, only is the company is to riches the only to go to mars o moon you and my no millon to pay to go to the moon nasa is no pay for this money come people pay tax , is bullshit nasa has history start to get to moon and motive half carrera is stop for more 60 year the doing same trickt to be take the money thas see

    • Tyler3978

      Sir, are you having a stroke?

  • Rad Donkey
    Rad Donkey

    9 cubic meters is over 300 cubic feet. 29 cubic feet is a big refrigerator.

    • Rad Donkey
      Rad Donkey

      For your Orion habitable volume.

  • kristijan todoroski
    kristijan todoroski

    Starship fall down so slow on reentry that cosmonauts can parachute down and the starship can land empty...

  • frank lundi
    frank lundi

    The limping deposit aetiologically slow because almanac roughly search to a lyrical silver. lumpy, nutritious price

  • Natey McBatey
    Natey McBatey

    As long as this video is, it took at LEAST 40 times as long for Tim and his team to make it. Shame on you if you didn't push the like button.

  • pzen

    You accidentally the volume conversions to American standard

  • B Pitotbrett
    B Pitotbrett

    Spot on, Tim! No fluff. No waisted time. Good pace. I appreciate the rant. You are more objective and kind than I am. Great job!

  • Mugen

    is it that easy to leave the moons atmosphere??

    • Farel

      @Tyler3978 it does actually. Just very thin that atmosphere is the least problem of the program

    • Tyler3978

      Considering the Moon doesn't have an atmosphere, yes

  • Mugen

    cant we just fly a feuling cable to space?

  • Rik Ver Mar
    Rik Ver Mar

    SLS will still look and sound better than Starship during liftoff

  • John Wuethrich
    John Wuethrich

    2.5 billion for a plug... Guess where it goes?

  • K H
    K H

    Orion still looks like crap compared to space x

    • Willoughby Krenzteinburg
      Willoughby Krenzteinburg

      Orion is just the capsule. Is this what you are talking about? And compared to WHAT PART of SpaceX?

  • Vitty

    Wait a minute I'm confused......I thought the earth was flat

  • Fredric Bethune
    Fredric Bethune

    The F-15ex is the bomb truck and the F-22 guides it to target. Oh my!

  • AnyTwoWillDo

    Tony Bruno of ULA is criminal! No innovation and stealing tax money!!

  • Otis Spunks
    Otis Spunks

    And then we found out the Dynetics Alpaca can't physically land, and the Nat Lander being a backroom money deal to resell old plans back to NASA. I can only wonder why NASA chose Space X.


    SLS is not a space program, it is a financial program, getting a rocket to space might be a positive side effect. It might.

  • GusMortis

    I feel that over spending on public projects, helps to pay for black projects going on behind the scenes.

  • El OnTheBass
    El OnTheBass

    This is science fiction masquerading as Science. One question: How do achieve propulsion in the total vacuum of space? Don’t worry I’ll wait.

    • El OnTheBass
      El OnTheBass

      @idlemessiah What you're describing is propellent being propelled outward. Propulsion involves the displacement of of a given medium(air, water, etc.) resulting in kinetic energy or motion. You can expel propellent in space, but there is NO displacement in a vacuum. And therefore no kinetic force can be produced. The propellent will leave the rocket but NOTHING will be propelled away from said rocket.This is simple logic guys.

    • Willoughby Krenzteinburg
      Willoughby Krenzteinburg

      @idlemessiah I'm pretty sure you are going one way, and he is going the other...

    • idlemessiah

      I'm going to take you seriously actually. A vacuum is the absence of stuff. Space right? A rocket brings it's stuff with it. It has it's own fuel in a pressurised tank. Fuel can't burn without oxygen so it has a tank of that too. You mix the two together and pass it over an electrical arc, the same sort the spark plugs in your car make. The resulting hot expanding gas is focussed through a cone and because of Newton's laws of action and reaction, the hot gas goes one way and rocket goes the other way, resulting in propulsion.

    • Willoughby Krenzteinburg
      Willoughby Krenzteinburg

      @El OnTheBass yes or no. No convoluted answers. I shoot a gun in a vaccum. There is recoil. True or false.

    • El OnTheBass
      El OnTheBass

      ​@Willoughby Krenzteinburg Have people like you demonstrated this in any sort of repeatable experiment? Because people like me have tried multiple experiments involving vacuums proving that that you and people like you are categorically wrong.Combustion of any kind, and therefor propulsive force is simply impossible within a vacuum. Beyond this, the recoil of a gun has EVERYTHING to do with the medium in which it is fired. A gun is not a closed system. The kick of the gun is different under water than in an open field? Correct? Now imagine if you will....a complete and total vacuum. Your argument is paradoxical. There is no demonstrable or repeatable real world experiment to illustrate and prove this idea as fact. At best you have an interesting, albeit paradoxical thought experiment. And I have a valid and sincere question that still needs answering. You can condescend it and deride it or run from it. But there it is.

Starship Update
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